It’s long and temperamental, and there is a lot of backstory that I hadn’t been following. But this feels like an important conversation about the uses of empirical data for the purposes of social policy, specifically as it relates to data about intelligence and genetics.
The best exchange happens an hour and 26 minutes in:
Harris: do you doubt that people are different?
Klein: I doubt that we have, given the experiment we have run in this country, given centuries of slavery and segregation and oppression, given locking people out of jobs, out of good schools, out of building wealth, out of going into top professions, out of being part of the social networks that help you advance, the amount of violence and terror and trauma that we inflicted on African Americans in this country, I absolutely doubt, I truly to the core of my being doubt, that we are at a place where any of us should have confidence saying that the differences we see in individuals now reflect intrinsic group capacity.
Listen to the whole thing here.